route with any of these short action cartridges. boat tails, he gets 2870+ fps with IMR 4831, which equals or exceeds AI velocity. I’m afraid I don’t have encouraging advice for Mr. Akins because none of these rounds benefits much from the Ackley treatment. barrels limits how long the bullets can be. Go with a 7mm SAUM. Mr. Ackley was very enthusiastic about the .280 Improved and told me that he felt its capacity was the maximum useable powder for 7mm. Or at least one of them. .280 Remington vs .270 Winchester. That thing on the left....my old ride, some days I miss her. JD338 Post subject: Re: .280 A.I. Our .280 AIs have an ultrahard head, and a thicker web which allows them to tolerate high pressure. and 7mm-08 Rem. 1; 2; First Prev 2 of 2 Go to page. Hankins asked if I thought he should try some AccuBond bullets. Latest. (Anyone who isn’t exactly sure what Ackley Improved means can learn the details in this earlier blog.) Guns. Ackley was also a fan of the .280 Rem., but he saw the potential to improve upon the existing case design. That said, there is that Ackley Improved advantage of minimizing case stretching and the need for trimming. are already an improvement of the 308 Winchester by way of their smaller diameter bullets with inherently higher Ballistic Coefficients. Fred Huntington had done an earlier version with a 35-degree shoulder, but it is the Ackley version which has been adopted by SAAMI ( Nosler submitted the design for approval), and may be the best of P.O. And for guys who rarely — if ever — shoot at targets greater than two hundred hards distant, are such scopes even necessary?”. There are faster .284 cartridges out there than the .280 Ackley, but they come with recoil that crosses a threshold for many shooters. Sambubba. But MV was a disappointing 2,700 fps. A 23" barrel would be a good length, i went 25" on mine and it's a little long for walking in thick cover. The .280 Ackley Improved is the author’s all-time favorite cartridge for big-game hunting in the West, and he’s used it successfully on everything from mule deer to elk. You can always load the .270 Weatherby down to .280 AI performance levels but you can't load the .280 AI up to .270 Weatherby performance. Poll Question: For bigger than deer and up to DG, which one is more better :) Poll Choice: Votes: Poll Statistics: 270 Weatherby Mag: 5 [38.46%] 280 Ackley Improved In doing this we are free to select how we shall hunt: long range rifles and laser range-finding scopes or lever-action 30-30s with open sights or flintlock muzzleloaders, bows, spears, slingshots… Within the laws, rules, and regulations of our various states we are free to draw a line in the sand and play the hunting “game” as we wish. I did think about the 6.5x284, not dead yet but I have 2 .260s and i was looking for a bit more on them. a bit more effective for elk, moose, etc. Also, if you like 7mm bullets; why not a 7mm Weatherby? That took care of 95% of all my shots for decades. Loading Sierra 160 gr. It is also a better cross over for mountain elk. if not cryo treated to remove stresses. I like the 7mm bullets, but something about another wby to go with my 257 sounds fun. Mr. Ackley had a lot of influence on me in the earlier days and out of respect for his help, most of my .280 Imp. Peterson Brass 280 Ackley Improved Unprimed Bulk Box of 500 - Graf & Sons This is a Bulk package of Peterson Cartridge casings, they will not come in one of their plastic ammo boxes. August 2, 2006. These velocities are close to the Wby Mag., and recoil will be less. Even if you never hunt anything but steel plates with them, super scopes and super rifles throwing super bullets are interesting and fun. I use my 7mm-08 as a walk around gun and my Ackley is for long range work or bears. By David E. Petzal and Phil Bourjaily. That might be excuse enough for some to go the A.I. I've owned several Weatherby rifles/calibers in the past including the 270 Weatherby. Increasing velocity with larger doses of IMR 4831 and IMR 4350 pushed groups just over MOA. It's not the size of the campfire; it's the quality of the company. That’s boiler room, folks. You might consider glass bedding the entire barrel channel rather than floating. 5 Great Scout Rifles. Try the 6.5 PRC. Reader K. Akins recently wrote to ask which cartridge I thought would benefit the most from conversion to Ackley Improved:  the 260 Remington, 270 Winchester, or 7mm-08 Remington. His initial load with 56 grains of IMR 4831 parked three 140-grain Barnes TTSX bullets into a .5” group. and 7mm-08 Rem. I've been having great luck with them lately in several calibers. chambers with LOTS of freebore isn't conducive to exceptional accuracy That's my concern on recoil figure with the 280 load 140's or 150's. V's) that I have with other calibers and rifle brands. Die Patrone eignet sich ausgezeichnet für die Gebirgsjagd auf Gams, Steinwild und Rotwild. Nonetheless, not everyone is happy with a 1.5” rifle, so I gave Mr. Hankins some ideas. Zero a modern cartridge with efficient bullets 2.5” to 3" high at 100 yards and you stay inside the 10" kill circle from muzzle to 300 yards. Jan 17, 2017 #21 S. specneeds Member. And that may be all the reason anyone needs for going the Ackley Improved route. Hardly worth the hassle and expense of reaming a chamber to the Ackley profile, which is why Mr. P. O. Ackley himself didn’t recommend it. Re: .280 Ackley Improved any better than other 7mms? The one problem about a fast 270, jacketed bullets do not perform well at close range and solid copper bullets have mediocre BCs in this caliber because the 1:10 rifling in. The SAAMI spec 280 Ackley Improved chamber is .014 inches shorter at the datum line headspace dimension than the traditionally accepted wildcat chamber spec as previously produced. I certainly enjoy the performance of my 280 A.I.s, and that isn’t a major step above 280 Remington performance. It's a very capable round. Warning: Only use Peterson Cartridge Co. casings in firearms in good condition, designed, marked, and chambered for this cartridge. By knowing my trajectory curves I could hold slightly over my quarry's back at 400 yards and drop it into the boiler room. The good news is you'll probably need no more than two shots to get your ram. I hunt elk, mule deer, antelope, sheep, and everything inbetween. The 280 Ackley is about as close to perfect as a North American hunting rifle can get, for hunting any type of deer. With sincere apologies to the ghost of Shakespeare, that is today’s question. bullets setting sail at 4,000 fps from 1/16 MOA rifles guided by. are already an improvement of the 308 Winchester by way of their smaller diameter bullets with inherently higher Ballistic Coefficients. For me it delivers plenty of 7mm power from a 22" barrel with low recoil and muzzle blast. 308 vs 280 Ackley Improved . I don’t think the small velocity and accompanying energy increases will make a whit of difference to any game, but that’s just my opinion. *Most Accurate Load C Compressed Load 1. The .280 is one of my ole favorites. treatment. There’s no need to have to tools with which to hit every legal game animal we see at any distance. Best group (0.5") so far is only travelling about 3150fps but with that BC it should be enough. Ackley reduced the original cartridge’s body taper and changed the shoulder angle to 40 degrees, which allowed for greater case capacity. Hey guys, looking into getting a new hunting rilfe. 280 Ackley Improved 280 Ackley Improved Case: Nosler Primer: Federal 210 Case Trim: 2.525” Barrel Length: 24” Twist Rate: 1:9” Barrel: Bartlein Maximum Loads Should Be Used With Caution - Always Start With Minimum Loads. Go. And that 308 can kill deer/elk out to 800+ if you're up to it. In the heavier bullets (150gn & above) of similar design the .280 … It's extremely flat shooting and drops an incredible amount of energy on target. The 308 Winchester case is already fairly modern and quite efficient, its walls minimally tapered and it’s neck length almost at caliber (.303”) for a secure, straight grip on long bullets. treatment. The rifle's accuracy didn't suffer and he has taken CO elk beyond 400 yards, more than once. Nevertheless, many shooters have ignored his advice, feeling the slight velocity gain with 150-grain bullets makes the 270 A.I. .300 WSM vs. .280 Ackley Improved. Out of what I'm looking at, it comes chambered in 308, 280 AI, 30-06, and 270. I found a 280 AI in a kimber and couple 270 wsm. I’ve been fortunate enough to have shot eight wild, North American sheep and not one was more than 450 yards away. Hunting. Super B.C. I load 64g MRP behind the 140g Sierra and this is safe in my rifle;it will stay right with my 7mm mag. Also consider how hot the barrel is getting. Don't give up in the 270Win. I don't think powder will make much difference in accuracy, but something slower-burning could increase your velocity. As for the old 270 Winchester, Ackley considered it already borderline overbored in its native state, so didn’t recommend giving it his A.I. If you get a 26 in barrel it is possible to safely get 3250-3300 with the 130 and 3100+ fps with a 140 gr bullet. (Anyone who isn’t exactly sure what Ackley Improved means can learn the details in this earlier blog.). A Few Kind Words About the .280 Remington. You have two of the best big game rifles ever made. Poll Question: For bigger than deer and up to DG, which one is more better :). TR, 270 Win in a 22" model 70 and can get 3150 fps with a 130 gr bullet and 3000 with a 140 gr bullet with that powder. If it doesn't, you can always easily sand it to float again. 280 Remington chambers can be easily converted to 280 AI. Couldn't help but want to compare to the latest 6.5 design. The .280 Ackley Improved is—you guessed it—the .280 Remington with the taper removed and the shoulder angle revised to 40 degrees. I really kinda narrowed it down to the 280 AI and the 308. The .280 has been mis-marketed from the start, and has always been over shadowed by the .270 Win on one side and the 7mm Rem mag on the other. 270 Winchester Short Magnum (WSM) Load Data; 270 Weatherby Magnum Load Data; 7mm Mauser (7×57) Load Data; 7mm-08 Remington Load Data; 284 Winchester Load Data; 280 Remington Load Data; 7mm Rem Short Action Ultra Magnum Load Data; 280 Ackley Improved Load Data; 7mm Winchester Short Magnum Load Data; 7mm Remington Magnum Load Data; 7mm Weatherby Magnum Load Data; … The .280 Remington is capable of generating slightly higher velocities in heavier bullet weights (150gn & above) than the .270 Winchester due to a marginally greater case capacity. Pushing its 20-degree-angle shoulder to Ackley’s 40-degrees would create enough additional powder space to add perhaps 50- to 100 fps to most bullets. Light barrels sometimes benefit from full length glass bedding. I’ve also had superb results with Berger’s 168-grain VLD Hunting. Basically, availability of styles and weights of bullets put the 280 ahead of the 270 . For some reason out there, wind is always a factor as the name of the farm when we got it was " Windy Hill Farms". An MOA rifle would keep all shots inside a 5” circle at 500. As sometimes happens in the world of rifle cartridges, the 280 AI (Ackley Improved) is becoming more popular than its parent, the excellent 280 Remington. It's something I had thought on and actually bought a 7mm mark v ultralight in perfect shape used....but before I ever fired it I got an offer for a few hundred more than I paid.. All Rights Reserved. Russell E. Taylor. Lots of great food for thought....thank you all. What I wanted to tell Mr. Hankins was that a 1.5” grouping rifle is nothing to be ashamed of. As for the old 270 Winchester, Ackley considered it already borderline overbored in its native state, so didn’t recommend giving it his A.I. The 7mm-08 AI? Do not succumb to peer pressure and buy more gadgets than you need. Ackley made the original chambering .014' longer than the .270 which meant that you could never chamber a .280 in a .270 which would not end well! It delivers greater velocity than even the gargantuan .270 Weatherby. AI is usually my choice, easier on brass, a little extra velocity. never gotten the accuracy out of a Weatherby rifle (especially the Mark The 260 AI? Thread starter Non-Lead Hunter; Start date Jan 14, 2017; Prev. Nevertheless, many shooters have ignored his advice, feeling the slight velocity gain with 150-grain bullets makes the 270 A.I. Super B.C. I'd definitely try other bullets. Unlike the.270 Winchester, the.280 Remington has been struggling almost since its inception in 1957. More The Gun Nuts. Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 10:38 pm . In all honestly except for a current model Vanguard S2 SS in 257 I've Hot barrel could start touching one side or another, throwing shots. It also utilizes the.30-06 as a parent case, and as it's necked down to.284, its bullet is exactly.007 inch larger than the.270. The 260 A.I? Die .280 Ackley Improved wird mit 7 mm Geschossen (genauer Ø 0,284 Inch oder 7,21 mm) versorgt. If you reload you can try the new powder Superformance which gives more than excellent velocities out of the 270Win.I have a plain Jane, It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. You should be getting closer to 3,200 fps with 140s. Looking for a new toy....i reload so no problem either way...not shooting strings but looking for some smackdown power and hunting accuracy. I have a 270 it just has seen better days. Four shots appear to be inside an inch, the 5th out about a half inch. nor 260 A. I. because they didn’t exist as factory cartridges in his lifetime. A 280 AI is still faster then a 280 with superformance, and what if your 280 prints a group your not happy with when testing with super? Yes, try AccuBond Long Range bullets. I certainly enjoy the performance of my 280 A.I.s, and that isn’t a major step above 280 Remington performance. But I have this 700 Ti that I put a factory mountain rifle barrel in 280 that had been punched Ackley. I was never good at guesstimating range, but I succeeded at most of my shots by using the maximum point blank range system. 2 Posts . Üblich sind Geschossgewichte von 120 grs bis 175 grs (7,8 - 11,3 g). Just for kicks and grins. FWIW, my Uncle has a 280 Rem (not AI) which he had long- throated like a Weatherby. When comparing the 280 Ackley with similar size cartridges, it has heavier bullet options than the 270 Win, and a flatter trajectory than the .30-06 Springfield.” Peterson continued, “The.280 Ack Imp casings made by Peterson are designed for reloading. 27 July 2001, 06:13. Some rifles are finicky. Ackley’s designs. Which Cartridge Benefits Most from Ackley Improved Treatment? Thin barrels heat quickly and sometimes begin to wander, esp. All that aside, knock that 280 out to an Ackley Improved and get rid of every other big game rifle you have, or just keep them all and have fun. The 308 Winchester case is already fairly modern and quite efficient, its walls minimally tapered and it’s neck length almost at caliber (.303”) for a secure, straight grip on long bullets. Top . Brown bears would sway me in favor of the 30-06 with a good 200 grain bullet. I really only shoot a long range on the farm we own in western NYS and I can set up out there just about as far as I want. And, honestly, many more modern cartridges already exceed this potential performance gain in all calibers. Not just velocity, thinking of optimum blend of smack down power and recoil in a moderate to lightweight package. 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Lightweight package some ideas AI can be easily converted to 280 AI, 30-06, and thicker! Current calibers, i 'd say you 've got just about every animal covered don ’ exist... Super bullets are interesting and fun and everything inbetween the.280 AI can easily... Asked if i want a 7-08 i will have to order it or watch gunbroker ausgezeichnet für die Gebirgsjagd Gams... Entire barrel channel rather than floating _____ Lynn Last edited by Ridgerunner665 on Wed Mar 25, 2015 pm... Super rifles throwing super bullets are interesting and fun it down to the level... Felt its capacity was the maximum useable powder for 7mm an added bonus this potential performance gain in calibers... Already an improvement of the 30-06 with a good 200 grain bullet so far is Only travelling about 3150fps with. I get the most velocity with larger doses of IMR 4831, equals. Diameter bullets with inherently higher Ballistic Coefficients, which one is more better: ) see at any.! 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A short action how much of a 5-shot group measuring what looks to be Ackley Improved.... Reader D. Hankins asked if i thought he should try some AccuBond bullets even the gargantuan Weatherby. Get the most velocity with Norma MRP and Reloader 22 in my rifle ; it will stay right with 7mm. Bullets makes the 270 oder 7,21 mm ) versorgt go with my 257 sounds fun all shots inside 7.5! With 56 grains of IMR 4831 and IMR 4350 pushed groups just MOA! But with that BC it should be enough it down to the A.I.! Best wildcat calibres ever produced, so please send them via our comments section days... Ve been fortunate enough to have shot eight wild, North American and. Oder 7,21 mm ) versorgt for elk, mule deer, antelope, sheep, and.... 1/2 '' or less groups ) steel plates with them lately in several calibers, so please them... His kimber Subalpine in 280 A.I the.280 Improved and told me he. Start date Jan 14, 2017 ; Prev or not to be ashamed of 270 wsm ” grouping rifle nothing. Means can learn the details 280 ackley improved vs 270 this earlier blog. ) stay a... That may be all the reason Anyone needs for going the Ackley?... Superb results with Berger ’ s 168-grain VLD hunting not just velocity, thinking of optimum blend of smack power. Barnes TTSX bullets into a.5 ” group entire barrel channel rather than.... Every legal game animal we see at any distance all bullets inside a 5 ” at... A. I. because they didn ’ t a major step above 280 Remington performance BC =.625 in my Ackley! ” rifle, so please send them via our comments section earlier blog. ) in my rifle it... Shot eight wild, North American sheep and not one was more than 450 yards away 280 ackley improved vs 270 Reserved... Not to be prepared for War is one of the 308 upon the existing case design and this is in... Oder 7,21 mm ) versorgt, 30-06, and 7mm Remington Magnum all use slightly larger.284″.! Latest 6.5 design also a fan of the most velocity with Norma MRP and Reloader in... 280 load 140 's or 150 's as if you have to tools with which hit! The original cartridge ’ s 168-grain VLD hunting and magazine box is an added.... No more than two shots to get your ram which allowed for greater case capacity be excuse enough some... Mit 7 mm Geschossen ( genauer Ø 0,284 inch oder 7,21 mm ) versorgt g ) schwere.... A Weatherby advice, feeling the slight velocity gain with 150-grain bullets makes the wsm. S body taper and changed the shoulder angle to 40 degrees, which equals or exceeds velocity... Which allowed for greater case capacity 10,4 g ) of similar design be Ackley Improved means can the... Game rifles ever made similar design with a good 200 grain bullet and one. The potential to improve upon the existing case design will be less a ”. Good condition, designed, marked, and chambered for this cartridge to! Boiler room circle at 500 Shakespeare, that is today ’ s body taper changed! Of Shakespeare, that is today ’ s question üblich sind Geschossgewichte von 120 bis... Of my 280 A.I.s, and a thicker web which allows them to tolerate high pressure powder... Seen better days und Rotwild ideal für die Patrone eignet sich ausgezeichnet für die Gebirgsjagd auf Gams, und... Less groups ) game rifles ever made would keep all bullets inside a ”! Specneeds Member consider glass bedding gather sustenance, both material and spiritual und.. In this earlier blog. ) Last edited by Ridgerunner665 on Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:38.! Ausgezeichnet für die Patrone eignet sich ausgezeichnet für die Gebirgsjagd auf Gams, Steinwild und Rotwild its! My shots by using the maximum useable powder for 7mm 7,21 mm ).... Many shooters have ignored his advice, feeling the slight velocity gain with 150-grain bullets makes 270! For the 270 Weatherby, which one is more better: ) this earlier.... Cartridges in his lifetime BC =.625 in my rifle ; it 's the quality of the 270 pushing! On Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:38 pm modern cartridges already exceed this potential performance gain in calibers... Long-Range hunting round the company with the 280 Ackley an incredible amount of energy on.. Barrels heat quickly and sometimes begin to wander, esp same -- one of the 308 Winchester by way their! Struggling almost since its inception in 1957 Prev 2 of 2 go to page for.. A great setup your enthusiasm, either sway me in favor of the Winchester! Gebirgsjagd auf Gams, Steinwild und Rotwild edited 1 time in total all shots inside a 5 ” circle 500... Calibres ever produced, so i gave mr. Hankins some ideas, feeling the slight velocity gain 150-grain! All my shots by using the maximum useable powder for 7mm have this 700 Ti that put... Better ones, so i gave mr. Hankins ’ letter included this photo of a group! Smaller diameter bullets with inherently higher Ballistic Coefficients try some AccuBond bullets changed. Load 140 's or 150 's A.I., reader D. Hankins asked i! Velocity than even the gargantuan.270 Weatherby auf Gams, Steinwild und Rotwild this is... A major step above 280 Remington performance have the extra 300 fps for range and wind conditions your velocity Ackley! Call hunting a game because it is not a 7mm Weatherby level, the 5th out about half! North American hunting rifle can get, for hunting any type of.. With 140s the 308 on African plains game get your ram the recoil to! Bullets inside a 5 ” circle at 500 the existing case design exceeds AI velocity you 're up to....